comp.tf - User contributions [en]

Talk:Main Page

2013-12-14T06:11:04Z

218.104.234.195: /* はこれですた最高の仕事です */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== はこれですた最高の仕事です ==

インタビュー埃里克多兹とベンBRODEコミュニティフォーラム海外からのためのBlizzConチーム液体に行ってきました「ゲーム開発チーム2ゲームデザイナー、それはインタビューの中でただ二人のデザイナー」と、ハースの伝説は変化のバランスをしない下にストーブ、小さなHahadanran伝説"プレビューを作成するために、導入された石の開発」、伝説の現在の状態だけでなく、実行する、将来の新機能それでは、いくつかの優れた新機能を試してみましょう。

ハースは、システムの新機能の伝説のPVE要素とタスクは増加します

昨日、そのようなタスクシステムの周波数などの新機能、およびあなたが最初のPVEの要素が必要なこれらの追加機能の開発を明らかにしていないだけではなく？これは、任意の経験を複製することができますか？報酬の状況？

私たちはアイデアを具体的な機能の多くを計画して、次のステップのためでもある。我々の次のステップは、第20の初めから約30新しいカードで、ボス戦の形で立ち上げました。しかし、戦いを繰り返すことができるように、彼らはまだ非常に興味深いものになるので、彼らは非常に現実的、具体的なインセンティブであるが、準備ができていない、それはあなたがあなたのリターンを得ることができます。そうではなく、あなたはすべてのカードで多くの時間を得ることを、すべての経験は、それは非常に興味深いものになるにもかかわらず、同じです。

スタークラフト2 、あなたがたとえば、ラダーモードに質問をしたい、同じプログラムのようにあなたを言うと、そこにあることができる「ああ、私は知っている彼のレベルなので、私はザーグのレベルができ、この方のみ、例えば、「司祭を再生し、ザーグを再生、なぜ私は私の最強のスーツはこれですた最高の仕事です。しかし、突然、司祭、はしごの位置を再生し、私は私が行くよ方法がわからないのですか？あなたはどのような各プレイヤーを区別するために、はしごの具体的な配置に合わせて職業のための準備ができていますか？同じレベルで、適切なウォーロックの選手を使っているので、私は選手たちのために牧師だったとき、私はそれを再生すると、彼は適切なレベルでしょうか？

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/dragonquest10/ dq10 rmt]

Talk:Main Page

2013-12-13T06:51:44Z

218.104.234.195: /* 開発するためにいくつかの能力を示す */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== 開発するためにいくつかの能力を示す ==

統計では、我々の現在のシステムは、各デッキのための具体的な計画を収集し、情報を動作しません。勝利か、どのようにカードデッキのバージョン、一部のカードでの特に強い高、例。また、展望台での競争は、特定の詳細がまだ存在することを信じています。

これを試してみたい場合は、私は十分にデッキラダー遊びを持って、私が知っている多くの人々は、それが自身の3のセットが、相手の持っているので、あなたは50-50の勝利が来従うとき、私は、マッチングシステムを選択しました。

新しいモデルは非常に異なるはしご、基準値やゲームよりランキングのイベントではなく、はしごになります。たとえば、あなたの新しい25のオープン階段はしごから、ゲーム中の狂気のひよこ他の鶏グレードの前に、あなたがプレイしているときはいつでも。

データは、そのクライアントを開発するためにいくつかの能力を示す？たとえば、あなたが見ることができるように、彼らのゲームの結果は、最も一般的に業界で使用されている。

これは、彼らのフィードバックのランキングを受け入れるだけでなく、独自のデータを表示したいのキャリアを再生し、彼のプレーヤーから測定される。データ表示を、より多くの機能を開発するだけでなく、ゲームのインターフェイスのデザイン、さらに我々は、もちろん、我々は今、あまりにも多くのゲームのデータを持っている必要はありません。将来のバージョンでは、我々はあまりにも多くの不要なデータを追加しないが、これはほぼ確実に我々の焦点である。

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/ rmt]

Talk:Main Page

2013-12-12T06:28:56Z

218.104.234.195: /* 各プレイヤーを区別するために */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== ラダーモードに質問をしたい ==

インタビュー埃里克多兹とベンBRODEコミュニティフォーラム海外からのためのBlizzConチーム液体に行ってきました「ゲーム開発チーム2ゲームデザイナー、それはインタビューの中でただ二人のデザイナー」と、ハースの伝説は変化のバランスをしない下にストーブ、小さなHahadanran伝説"プレビューを作成するために、導入された石の開発」、伝説の現在の状態だけでなく、実行する、将来の新機能それでは、いくつかの優れた新機能を試してみましょう。

ハースは、システムの新機能の伝説のPVE要素とタスクは増加します

昨日、そのようなタスクシステムの周波数などの新機能、およびあなたが最初のPVEの要素が必要なこれらの追加機能の開発を明らかにしていないだけではなく？これは、任意の経験を複製することができますか？報酬の状況？

私たちはアイデアを具体的な機能の多くを計画して、次のステップのためでもある。我々の次のステップは、第20の初めから約30新しいカードで、ボス戦の形で立ち上げました。しかし、戦いを繰り返すことができるように、彼らはまだ非常に興味深いものになるので、彼らは非常に現実的、具体的なインセンティブであるが、準備ができていない、それはあなたがあなたのリターンを得ることができます。そうではなく、あなたはすべてのカードで多くの時間を得ることを、すべての経験は、それは非常に興味深いものになるにもかかわらず、同じです。

スタークラフト2 、あなたがたとえば、ラダーモードに質問をしたい、同じプログラムのようにあなたを言うと、そこにあることができる「ああ、私は知っている彼のレベルなので、私はザーグのレベルができ、この方のみ、例えば、「司祭を再生し、ザーグを再生、なぜ私は私の最強のスーツはこれですた最高の仕事です。しかし、突然、司祭、はしごの位置を再生し、私は私が行くよ方法がわからないのですか？あなたはどのような各プレイヤーを区別するために、はしごの具体的な配置に合わせて職業のための準備ができていますか？同じレベルで、適切なウォーロックの選手を使っているので、私は選手たちのために牧師だったとき、私はそれを再生すると、彼は適切なレベルでしょうか？

<a href="http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/dragonquest10/" title="dq10 rmt">dq10 rmt</a>

== 各プレイヤーを区別するために ==

インタビュー埃里克多兹とベンBRODEコミュニティフォーラム海外からのためのBlizzConチーム液体に行ってきました「ゲーム開発チーム2ゲームデザイナー、それはインタビューの中でただ二人のデザイナー」と、ハースの伝説は変化のバランスをしない下にストーブ、小さなHahadanran伝説"プレビューを作成するために、導入された石の開発」、伝説の現在の状態だけでなく、実行する、将来の新機能それでは、いくつかの優れた新機能を試してみましょう。

ハースは、システムの新機能の伝説のPVE要素とタスクは増加します

昨日、そのようなタスクシステムの周波数などの新機能、およびあなたが最初のPVEの要素が必要なこれらの追加機能の開発を明らかにしていないだけではなく？これは、任意の経験を複製することができますか？報酬の状況？

私たちはアイデアを具体的な機能の多くを計画して、次のステップのためでもある。我々の次のステップは、第20の初めから約30新しいカードで、ボス戦の形で立ち上げました。しかし、戦いを繰り返すことができるように、彼らはまだ非常に興味深いものになるので、彼らは非常に現実的、具体的なインセンティブであるが、準備ができていない、それはあなたがあなたのリターンを得ることができます。そうではなく、あなたはすべてのカードで多くの時間を得ることを、すべての経験は、それは非常に興味深いものになるにもかかわらず、同じです。

スタークラフト2 、あなたがたとえば、ラダーモードに質問をしたい、同じプログラムのようにあなたを言うと、そこにあることができる「ああ、私は知っている彼のレベルなので、私はザーグのレベルができ、この方のみ、例えば、「司祭を再生し、ザーグを再生、なぜ私は私の最強のスーツはこれですた最高の仕事です。しかし、突然、司祭、はしごの位置を再生し、私は私が行くよ方法がわからないのですか？あなたはどのような各プレイヤーを区別するために、はしごの具体的な配置に合わせて職業のための準備ができていますか？同じレベルで、適切なウォーロックの選手を使っているので、私は選手たちのために牧師だったとき、私はそれを再生すると、彼は適切なレベルでしょうか？

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/dragonquest10 ドラクエ10 rmt]

Talk:Main Page

2013-12-11T05:50:31Z

218.104.234.195: /* ラダーモードに質問をしたい */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== ラダーモードに質問をしたい ==

インタビュー埃里克多兹とベンBRODEコミュニティフォーラム海外からのためのBlizzConチーム液体に行ってきました「ゲーム開発チーム2ゲームデザイナー、それはインタビューの中でただ二人のデザイナー」と、ハースの伝説は変化のバランスをしない下にストーブ、小さなHahadanran伝説"プレビューを作成するために、導入された石の開発」、伝説の現在の状態だけでなく、実行する、将来の新機能それでは、いくつかの優れた新機能を試してみましょう。

ハースは、システムの新機能の伝説のPVE要素とタスクは増加します

昨日、そのようなタスクシステムの周波数などの新機能、およびあなたが最初のPVEの要素が必要なこれらの追加機能の開発を明らかにしていないだけではなく？これは、任意の経験を複製することができますか？報酬の状況？

私たちはアイデアを具体的な機能の多くを計画して、次のステップのためでもある。我々の次のステップは、第20の初めから約30新しいカードで、ボス戦の形で立ち上げました。しかし、戦いを繰り返すことができるように、彼らはまだ非常に興味深いものになるので、彼らは非常に現実的、具体的なインセンティブであるが、準備ができていない、それはあなたがあなたのリターンを得ることができます。そうではなく、あなたはすべてのカードで多くの時間を得ることを、すべての経験は、それは非常に興味深いものになるにもかかわらず、同じです。

スタークラフト2 、あなたがたとえば、ラダーモードに質問をしたい、同じプログラムのようにあなたを言うと、そこにあることができる「ああ、私は知っている彼のレベルなので、私はザーグのレベルができ、この方のみ、例えば、「司祭を再生し、ザーグを再生、なぜ私は私の最強のスーツはこれですた最高の仕事です。しかし、突然、司祭、はしごの位置を再生し、私は私が行くよ方法がわからないのですか？あなたはどのような各プレイヤーを区別するために、はしごの具体的な配置に合わせて職業のための準備ができていますか？同じレベルで、適切なウォーロックの選手を使っているので、私は選手たちのために牧師だったとき、私はそれを再生すると、彼は適切なレベルでしょうか？

<a href="http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/dragonquest10/" title="dq10 rmt">dq10 rmt</a>

Talk:Main Page

2013-12-06T08:23:25Z

218.104.234.195: /* ゲームの標準的なシステムとなっているので */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== ゲームの標準的なシステムとなっているので ==

データは、それをどのような形で表示されますか？単語を表示するページが容易ではないと、テーブルの言葉を使うにはあまりにも冷たい。

アイデアは非常に興味深いですが、最近になって、我々はこれまで、各サーバーのトッププレイヤーの公開した。これは我々の計画での最初の一歩であり、我々は継続する準備が整いました。あなたは良い提案、またはその他の面白いアイデアがありましたら教えていただけます。我々は我々だけでより良い方法を見つけたい、そのようなデータを提供するために反対していません。

私たちは、アルザスを見ることができますか？

各ジョブは追加の文字、それになりますか？例えば、マスターと同じで、このような2代ターゲットを凍結するなどの別の文字、英雄変更する機能に置き換え。このようなプログラムではありませんか？

我々はこのような文字や英雄のキャリアを変更する機能として、この問題に長い時間があると考えています。アイデアは非常に興味深いであり、我々は検討しているが、明確な計画はありません。

何を達成システムを追加します？それのようにWorld of Warcraftのは、オーブンの石の伝説にそれを置く。 Battle.netを介して互いに両方のゲームの成果は、ご連絡させて？

はい、我々はこの点で述べた、我々は伝説ハース制度への参加を検討している。成果は現在、ゲームの標準的なシステムとなっているので、しかし、明確な計画は、ありません。

[http://www.rmtwired.jp/game/hancoin ハンコイン rmt]

Talk:Main Page

2013-12-05T06:50:33Z

218.104.234.195: /* ーブンの石の伝説にそれを置く */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== ーブンの石の伝説にそれを置く ==

データは、それをどのような形で表示されますか？単語を表示するページが容易ではないと、テーブルの言葉を使うにはあまりにも冷たい。

アイデアは非常に興味深いですが、最近になって、我々はこれまで、各サーバーのトッププレイヤーの公開した。これは我々の計画での最初の一歩であり、我々は継続する準備が整いました。あなたは良い提案、またはその他の面白いアイデアがありましたら教えていただけます。我々は我々だけでより良い方法を見つけたい、そのようなデータを提供するために反対していません。

私たちは、アルザスを見ることができますか？

ハハッハッハ、不明である。

各ジョブは追加の文字、それになりますか？例えば、マスターと同じで、このような2代ターゲットを凍結するなどの別の文字、英雄変更する機能に置き換え。このようなプログラムではありませんか？

我々はこのような文字や英雄のキャリアを変更する機能として、この問題に長い時間があると考えています。アイデアは非常に興味深いであり、我々は検討しているが、明確な計画はありません。

何を達成システムを追加します？それのようにWorld of Warcraftのは、オーブンの石の伝説にそれを置く。 Battle.netを介して互いに両方のゲームの成果は、ご連絡させて？

はい、我々はこの点で述べた、我々は伝説ハース制度への参加を検討している。成果は現在、ゲームの標準的なシステムとなっているので、しかし、明確な計画は、ありません。

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/hancoin ハンコイン商品券RMT]

Talk:Main Page

2013-12-03T06:19:17Z

218.104.234.195: /* ラダーモードに質問をした */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== ラダーモードに質問をした ==

これは「ハースストーンレジェンド「ゲーム開発チーム2ゲームデザイナーのためのBlizzconチームの液体中に海外からのコミュニティ·フォーラムであるベンBrodeとエリックドッズが行ったインタビューは、インタビューの中で二人のデザイナーだけでなく、「炉を導入石の伝説"開発の現状だけでなく、プレビューを作成するように実施することが、将来的にバランスの変更と新機能は、 Xiaobianははだんらんの伝説の下での新機能のいくつかを強調するためにしてみましょう。

だんらんの伝説の新機能は、ミッションシステムやPVE要素が増加します

昨日は、ミッションシステムなどの新機能の開発を明らかにしていただけでなく、 PVE要素は、これらの機能が起動しますかの周波数を追加しました？どのような経験を繰り返すことができる？報酬が起こるの？

我々はまた、我々はたくさんのアイデアを持って次の工程のために、特定の機能を計画している。我々の次のステップは、第20から30かそこらの新しいカードを起動し、打ち上げの形でボス戦をすることです。しかし、具体的な報酬は、現在準備ができていない、まだ、しかし、彼らは確かに彼らは非常に興味深いものになるので、戦闘を繰り返し、あなたが報酬を得ることを可能にすることができます。だから、すべてのカードの時間の多くを得ることではなく、各々の経験は非常に興味深いものになる場合も同様です。

私はあなたが同じようなプログラムが、持っていると言うことができているスタークラフト2は、例えば、ラダーモードに質問をしたい"私は彼のレベルはザーグのレベルで知ることができるので、さて、この方のみ、ザーグを再生する。 "例えば、司祭を再生するには、これは私の最高の仕事である理由は、これは私の最強のスーツです。しかし、私は突然、牧師を演奏、私の梯子の位置がどのようになるのだろうか？あなたはどのような各プレイヤーを区別する特定のキャリアの梯子に応じてランク付けさ準備ができていますか？私はウォーロックの選手と同じレベルに適合している使用したとき、彼はプレーヤーの対応するレベルに合わせた際にこのように、私は司祭を演じる？

[http://www.rmtwired.jp/game/arad アラド rmt]

Talk:Main Page

2013-11-29T06:00:46Z

218.104.234.195: /* ラダーモードに質問をしたい"私 */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== 暗い悲しみへの前奏曲 - これはあなた ==

ファイナルファンタジー2

心の中であなたとシオニズム戦士
彼らは、レンヌ、皇帝率いる帝国侵略の心臓部で、皇帝が主導的な役割を捕獲し、主人公の家を破壊した。反乱軍、市内で密かに後の主人公の帝国軍に対して鉱石武器、破壊された大規模な軍艦、最後の魔法に対してYIN元フィリピン、彼は決勝ラウンドで皇帝の4ファウル、戦争の廃止によって生じるコストを苦戦犯罪者の仲間の数。

ファイナルファンタジー7

惑星の悲しい運命
数年前、それは生物の裏（ジェノア）に埋もれて魔法の光エネルギーと呼ばれていた、電力会社の生産を研究するためにそれを使用する、彼らは新羅と呼ばれる生きている動物のサメに浸漬発見され、それゆえ、それは除外、世界最大となりますMAKOは、人々の能力を向上させるが、酷使がモンスターに人々を導くことができる。世界の総エネルギー炉サメサメ、彼らは試験体が台無しに失敗しました。これは惑星アポトーシスを乱獲、地球上の非再生可能エネルギー、サバ、です。ヒーローは、反神羅組織AVALANCHE 、アオザメの本質を知ってもらう過程で新羅と紛争から地球を戦うし、保存し始めた。

ファイナルファンタジー3

クリスタル輝度物語
彼らは怪物の地震を生成するために地下深く根関与クリスタルランプを含んでいても、どのような静かな老人世界人権巨大な、遠大な、暗い悲しみへの前奏曲 - これはあなたがそうでないと言うつもりですかですそこから、啓示のための光を受光するのかすかな希望をそれはまだ魂4に些細なことではない何かを持ってされます

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/ff14 ff14 rmt]

== 機能はクライアントがそれを開発 ==

私たちの現在の統計システムでは、各職種やデッキのための情報を収集するための具体的な計画を持っていません。特に強力なバージョン、またはどのように高い勝利のカードデッキの例では、一部のカード。我々はまた、競争のデッキを観察するという考えは、まだ具体的な詳細がある。

私は私がプレイするのに十分なこのデッキラダーを試してみたいとき、多くの人々は、 3枚の独自のセットを持って知っているが、相手は50-50を行っ勝利に従っているときので、マッチングシステムを選択する。

新ラダーモデルは非常に異なるものになります、基準値は、ラダーではなく試合よりもランクマッチします。たとえば、 25怒っひよこからあなたの新しい梯子を開いたときに関係なく、ゲーム内の他の雛の前ランクとはしごの、あなたは意志、遊ぶようになった。

一部のデータを表示する機能はクライアントがそれを開発？たとえば、独自のゲームの結果、最も使用される職業を見ることができます。

これは、独自のデータを見てみたい選手から自分の遊ぶキャリアだけでなく、自分のランキングをフィードバックを受け取るまで測定されている。もちろん我々はより多くのデータ表示機能を開発するだけでなく、ゲームのインターフェイスの設計が良くなるが、今の私たちは、ゲームがあまりにも多くのデータを持っている必要はありません。将来のバージョンでは、我々はあまりにも多くの不必要なデータを追加しませんが、これはほぼ確実に我々の焦点になります。

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/ff14 ff14 rmt]

== ラダーモードに質問をしたい"私 ==

これは「ハースストーンレジェンド「ゲーム開発チーム2ゲームデザイナーのためのBlizzconチームの液体中に海外からのコミュニティ·フォーラムであるベンBrodeとエリックドッズが行ったインタビューは、インタビューの中で二人のデザイナーだけでなく、「炉を導入石の伝説"開発の現状だけでなく、プレビューを作成するように実施することが、将来的にバランスの変更と新機能は、 Xiaobianははだんらんの伝説の下での新機能のいくつかを強調するためにしてみましょう。

だんらんの伝説の新機能は、ミッションシステムやPVE要素が増加します

昨日は、ミッションシステムなどの新機能の開発を明らかにしていただけでなく、 PVE要素は、これらの機能が起動しますかの周波数を追加しました？どのような経験を繰り返すことができる？報酬が起こるの？

我々はまた、我々はたくさんのアイデアを持って次の工程のために、特定の機能を計画している。我々の次のステップは、第20から30かそこらの新しいカードを起動し、打ち上げの形でボス戦をすることです。しかし、具体的な報酬は、現在準備ができていない、まだ、しかし、彼らは確かに彼らは非常に興味深いものになるので、戦闘を繰り返し、あなたが報酬を得ることを可能にすることができます。だから、すべてのカードの時間の多くを得ることではなく、各々の経験は非常に興味深いものになる場合も同様です。

私はあなたが同じようなプログラムが、持っていると言うことができているスタークラフト2は、例えば、ラダーモードに質問をしたい"私は彼のレベルはザーグのレベルで知ることができるので、さて、この方のみ、ザーグを再生する。 "例えば、司祭を再生するには、これは私の最高の仕事である理由は、これは私の最強のスーツです。しかし、私は突然、牧師を演奏、私の梯子の位置がどのようになるのだろうか？あなたはどのような各プレイヤーを区別する特定のキャリアの梯子に応じてランク付けさ準備ができていますか？私はウォーロックの選手と同じレベルに適合している使用したとき、彼はプレーヤーの対応するレベルに合わせた際にこのように、私は司祭を演じる？

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/dragonquest10/ dq10 rmt]

Talk:Main Page

2013-11-28T05:54:10Z

218.104.234.195: /* 機能はクライアントがそれを開発 */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== 暗い悲しみへの前奏曲 - これはあなた ==

ファイナルファンタジー2

心の中であなたとシオニズム戦士
彼らは、レンヌ、皇帝率いる帝国侵略の心臓部で、皇帝が主導的な役割を捕獲し、主人公の家を破壊した。反乱軍、市内で密かに後の主人公の帝国軍に対して鉱石武器、破壊された大規模な軍艦、最後の魔法に対してYIN元フィリピン、彼は決勝ラウンドで皇帝の4ファウル、戦争の廃止によって生じるコストを苦戦犯罪者の仲間の数。

ファイナルファンタジー7

惑星の悲しい運命
数年前、それは生物の裏（ジェノア）に埋もれて魔法の光エネルギーと呼ばれていた、電力会社の生産を研究するためにそれを使用する、彼らは新羅と呼ばれる生きている動物のサメに浸漬発見され、それゆえ、それは除外、世界最大となりますMAKOは、人々の能力を向上させるが、酷使がモンスターに人々を導くことができる。世界の総エネルギー炉サメサメ、彼らは試験体が台無しに失敗しました。これは惑星アポトーシスを乱獲、地球上の非再生可能エネルギー、サバ、です。ヒーローは、反神羅組織AVALANCHE 、アオザメの本質を知ってもらう過程で新羅と紛争から地球を戦うし、保存し始めた。

ファイナルファンタジー3

クリスタル輝度物語
彼らは怪物の地震を生成するために地下深く根関与クリスタルランプを含んでいても、どのような静かな老人世界人権巨大な、遠大な、暗い悲しみへの前奏曲 - これはあなたがそうでないと言うつもりですかですそこから、啓示のための光を受光するのかすかな希望をそれはまだ魂4に些細なことではない何かを持ってされます

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/ff14 ff14 rmt]

== 機能はクライアントがそれを開発 ==

私たちの現在の統計システムでは、各職種やデッキのための情報を収集するための具体的な計画を持っていません。特に強力なバージョン、またはどのように高い勝利のカードデッキの例では、一部のカード。我々はまた、競争のデッキを観察するという考えは、まだ具体的な詳細がある。

私は私がプレイするのに十分なこのデッキラダーを試してみたいとき、多くの人々は、 3枚の独自のセットを持って知っているが、相手は50-50を行っ勝利に従っているときので、マッチングシステムを選択する。

新ラダーモデルは非常に異なるものになります、基準値は、ラダーではなく試合よりもランクマッチします。たとえば、 25怒っひよこからあなたの新しい梯子を開いたときに関係なく、ゲーム内の他の雛の前ランクとはしごの、あなたは意志、遊ぶようになった。

一部のデータを表示する機能はクライアントがそれを開発？たとえば、独自のゲームの結果、最も使用される職業を見ることができます。

これは、独自のデータを見てみたい選手から自分の遊ぶキャリアだけでなく、自分のランキングをフィードバックを受け取るまで測定されている。もちろん我々はより多くのデータ表示機能を開発するだけでなく、ゲームのインターフェイスの設計が良くなるが、今の私たちは、ゲームがあまりにも多くのデータを持っている必要はありません。将来のバージョンでは、我々はあまりにも多くの不必要なデータを追加しませんが、これはほぼ確実に我々の焦点になります。

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/ff14 ff14 rmt]

Talk:Main Page

2013-11-27T05:57:54Z

218.104.234.195: /* 暗い悲しみへの前奏曲 - これはあなた */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== 暗い悲しみへの前奏曲 - これはあなた ==

ファイナルファンタジー2

心の中であなたとシオニズム戦士
彼らは、レンヌ、皇帝率いる帝国侵略の心臓部で、皇帝が主導的な役割を捕獲し、主人公の家を破壊した。反乱軍、市内で密かに後の主人公の帝国軍に対して鉱石武器、破壊された大規模な軍艦、最後の魔法に対してYIN元フィリピン、彼は決勝ラウンドで皇帝の4ファウル、戦争の廃止によって生じるコストを苦戦犯罪者の仲間の数。

ファイナルファンタジー7

惑星の悲しい運命
数年前、それは生物の裏（ジェノア）に埋もれて魔法の光エネルギーと呼ばれていた、電力会社の生産を研究するためにそれを使用する、彼らは新羅と呼ばれる生きている動物のサメに浸漬発見され、それゆえ、それは除外、世界最大となりますMAKOは、人々の能力を向上させるが、酷使がモンスターに人々を導くことができる。世界の総エネルギー炉サメサメ、彼らは試験体が台無しに失敗しました。これは惑星アポトーシスを乱獲、地球上の非再生可能エネルギー、サバ、です。ヒーローは、反神羅組織AVALANCHE 、アオザメの本質を知ってもらう過程で新羅と紛争から地球を戦うし、保存し始めた。

ファイナルファンタジー3

クリスタル輝度物語
彼らは怪物の地震を生成するために地下深く根関与クリスタルランプを含んでいても、どのような静かな老人世界人権巨大な、遠大な、暗い悲しみへの前奏曲 - これはあなたがそうでないと言うつもりですかですそこから、啓示のための光を受光するのかすかな希望をそれはまだ魂4に些細なことではない何かを持ってされます

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/ff14 ff14 rmt]

Talk:Main Page

2013-11-26T02:54:12Z

218.104.234.195: /* すべての4つのファイナルファンタジーに */ new section

== discussion meta ==
Where would be the right place to discuss how the Map articles are designed? Same thing about the League pages. Which, is the correct page to be talking about classes (groups) of pages? I want to see certain things happen across all League articles, and I don't know where to stage a discussion. [[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:07, 10 July 2013 (WEST)
==Leagues to include in weapons table==
For my weapon bans table, I don't know how many leagues is too many to include, I also don't know if there will be people interested in updating the banlists for the smaller leagues, should we include them.
Regardless, here my list so far.
{|
|
* CEVO 6v6
* ESEA 6v6
* ETF2L 6v6
* ozfortress 6v6 (OWL)
* UGC 6v6
|
* CEVO HL
* ETF2L HL
* ozfortress HL
* UGC HL
|}

any other leagues?
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 13:21, 9 July 2013 (WEST)

==Weapon Page Template==
Let me know what you think.

http://comp.tf/wiki/Conniver%27s_Kunai

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2013 (WEST)
:Looks way too detailed. I think we don't actually need pages for separate weapons, but even if, we don't need to go over every single gamemode, as the playstyle on all of them will be similar, due to the upsides/downsides of each weapon. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

For the more technical weapons (Kunai, FaN, All the medigus) it is most definetely required. But for things like the shovel, I can understand what you mean.

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:42, 6 July 2013 (WEST)

== Homepage suggestions ==
Maybe add a table to the home page with the current champions for every league would be good for newcomers to see who to look up to? Tell me what you think.
--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
:I've been meaning to make an ongoing/upcoming events page. May get on that soonish. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

= '''Templates''' =
This site could use some. I don't know enough 'wiki' to not stuff this up, does anyone know wiki-fu?
An About template (disambiguation hatnote), intext citation which point to footnotes, stub articles, ??? . I created [[Template:Hatnote]] already.

[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 19:17, 1 July 2013 (WEST)

Will look into that tomorrow

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Well what I discovered is that most templates used on other wikis have no extension dependencies, but they have a lot of other templates dependencies, so for example importing a player infobox template from liquipedia would need not only to import that template but 10-15 other templates used in it, which is not feasible. So the best solution is to create them ourselves, you can look up here how to do it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Sure, take it case by case though. Some of those dependencies might be necessary to port anyway. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

:Will get cracking on these. --[[User:Atlas|Atlas]] ([[User talk:Atlas|talk]]) 17:27, 5 July 2013 (WEST)

== Maps ==
The problem is, this convention looks really ugly when in the title of the page (see:[[Cp_granary]])
The first letter is forced to be capitalised (no good), and you can't see the underscore as it's covered by the line break. A layout change needs to happen should this one be implemented. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Map pages should be named in full with no version numbers (ex: koth_viaduct_pro not koth_viaduct_pro_v5, cp_process not cp_process_b3) , and map images as well, with the exact same name, at least for thumbnail purposes to be easier to use in templates, if anyone has time please start renaming map images to the proper name without version (I mean do this only for the main thumbnail of the map (ex: cp_granary.png) for specific images of version or other areas of the map let it be).
If maps have different versions these should be talked about inside the map page not in the title
Also, I transformed the mainpage table with this week maps into a template, but we need to rename the map pages and map images first before using it so it works well

[[Template:Weekmaps]]

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)
----
I reckon a good use for that table, would be to link the images of the Week's maps, to our wiki page for that week in the season of the league.
Those pages can be used to link to any relevant content for that week. Like a Media Centre.
* Notable matches
* Casts
* Links to logs
* VODs
* Links to the weeks matchups.
* written content
A navbox would be useful to navigate though each week of a season (in a league).

'''The name of the map''' below the image can link to the maps' page on our wiki, as per normal. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:38, 6 July 2013 (WEST)
---

== Class Headings (Offense, Defense, Support) ==

They are misleading and of little relevance to the competitive formats played. Would like to remove that heading as per Koobadoobs -- http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9921-comp-tf-a-competitive-tf2-wiki/3#post-147997

Now it's been changed to Generalists vs Specialists... which is really just the 6s mentality and doesn't fit in with how HL plays out... should we just leave it? I'm beginning to think just leaving them without headings is the best way to go--[[User:Koobadoobs|Koobadoobs]] ([[User talk:Koobadoobs|talk]]) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (WEST)

Maybe no headings at all would be the best way yes, this way we are not "favoring" any gamemode over the other. If there's an heading it should be much more specific, like Pick class for spy and sniper, Damage Dealer for Demo, etc... But even then it wouldn't apply to both gamemodes.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 01:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Something along this diagram? Still working on how it would be formatted in Wiki-Markup. http://i.imgur.com/rD34TzU.png

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Exactly, although I think that diagram would be very useful for an article of its own talking about class mechanics and the general metagame

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I've made a change to the class layout (Core: Solly, Demo, Heavy, Med | Support: Pyro, Engi | Picks: Scout, Sniper, Spy)

[[User:Shadowtroop|Shadowtroop]] ([[User talk:Shadowtroop|talk]]) 02:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

+1 to no headings. Scouts are themselves generalists rather than specialists,i.e. not simply a pick class. Having these kinds of headings stir up more debate than they settle. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:21, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

== UGC 6s bans ==

Currently every weapon only has four optional bans

6s_legal = Yes
hl_legal = Yes
etf2l_6s_legal = No
etf2l_hl_legal = Yes

When there should be UGC 6s and even CEVO bans added.
[[User:Peakay|Peakay]] ([[User talk:Peakay|talk]]) 18:39, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should definitely be improved and we should stick with one final format for now.

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 23:40, 3 July 2013 (WEST)

I started a new template for bans on class pages -_-' .[[Heavy#Weapons|Click]]. If we're adding more leagues to the weapon ban lists (good idea), this'll have to change too. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 05:38, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

I rushed to it and created tables for soldier and medic. Is this the template we'll use, just add some more leagues? Also, for the league bans, instead of making a column with "ESEA 6s", etc... maybe replace it with "Legal in"..?[[User:Kawaii|Kawaii]] ([[User talk:Kawaii|talk]]) 09:27, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

Weapon templates should really be standardized accross the entire wiki, your template is OK kawaii,but the main goal of templates is an automatic way of adding content,what you are doing is creating a template for each class slot, what should be done is create the same template for use in all class slots for all classes, with variables that change depending on user input, that's how it should be done because it really diminishes the work in the future to update the templates, right now if youwere to update the templates youwould have to edit all the ones you created, with a single template you would edit that one and it would change accross the entire site.
Take a look [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates here] or [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template here] to view how to create templates with variablesand check [[Template:Team_infobox|here]] for a current example being used in the wiki.

I made a quick mock up in paint, please don't take it seriously, but it's a bit more compact then the ones in use and I feel it would make up more space for what we really need to talk about which is strategies and uses of that specific weapons in each format. Not sure what you think about it. http://i.imgur.com/IjPpzkZ.jpg

Also, I'm still not entirely sure weapons should be talked about in the main class page or only on the specific class page for each gamemode, what do you think? The problem here is that if we talk on the main page, visitors can see the difference in bans from one game mode to another where if we talk on the specific gamemode page it wouldn't have that much of a comparision purpose

--[[User:Kaneco|Kaneco]] ([[User talk:Kaneco|talk]]) 10:00, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

Yeah that mock up image is better than what I had. -[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2013 (WEST)

----

== すべての4つのファイナルファンタジーに ==

ファイナルファンタジー1

時間と空間を通して、光の4戦士
主なトピック、土壌、水や風の浸食の4つのタイプが軍事火災粘土発生し、エルフではなく土の火をキャプチャするために混乱をもたらし、世界の光4戦士迅速救助崩壊、世界は常に混乱と風4結晶水に戻って表示されますウィザード神社〜敗北。

ファイナルファンタジー4

ライトとダークナイトZuchoisu
愛、友情、裏切りコミットアイデンティティの変化、すべての4つのファイナルファンタジーにこのモビリティスペース。私は英語男爵が空を支配包ま強力飛行船に依存しています。冷静に冷静に艦隊提督セシル（セシル）は飛行船デッキ空軍男爵の真ん中に立っている赤い翼のバックボーンを指揮。コマンドミッシーディアスとセシル、王国の村から驚くべき電力に応じて、彼のチームは、結晶を奪った。王の顔に男爵の勝利、結晶をつかむために手から罪のない村人は、非常に恥ずべきであろう、セシルは、ミッションの目的に疑問を呈したが、結果は王である、レッドウィングスチームのキャプテンは、オフィスから削除されました。明瓦伦西亚王国の忠誠心を証明するために、彼は別の王キルミスト村"悪魔"を受け入れる必要があった、護衛は、タスクの村に霧に包まれた。ただし、すべての村人たちは、それは、中央の村の霧小包爆弾全体の村に到達したときに、燃焼後のセシルが飛び出すすぐに死亡した。終了ドラグーン友人ケイと彼の邪悪な王セシルの戦いが原因誓う。セシルとかは、それほど単純ではありませんので、しかし、王、男爵ポーンもございます......それはそのすべての見えざる手と思われる

ファイナルファンタジー3

クリスタル輝度物語
彼らは怪物の地震を生成するために地下深く根関与クリスタルランプを含んでいても、何が静かにプレリュード巨大な、遠大な、暗い悲しみ"世界人権コーカスの老人である - これはあなたがそれを言う行う方法を行っている些細なことは、それはまだそこから受光啓示の魂にかすかな望みを持っていないでしょう

[http://www.info-rmt.jp/game/dragonquest10 ドラクエ10 rmt]